The Body speaks - Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura - Interview

Former pro wrestler and now-governor Jesse Ventura goes to the mat on gay rights

If political pundits were surprised in November when Democrats picked up five House seats, they were downright shocked by the victory of Jesse "The Body" Ventura--Reform Party candidate and former heavyweight pro wrestling champion--in the race for governor of Minnesota. A straight-talking macho man and former Navy SEAL, Ventura was the darling of fraternity boys, construction men, and other stereotypically red-blooded males. But with his libertarian views, belief in social tolerance, and friendships with gay men, Governor Ventura has turned out to be somewhat of a gay ally, even if some of his views put him squarely opposite most gays and lesbians. In a March interview with The Advocate, Ventura spoke about everything from hate-crimes legislation to gays in the military.

Could you give some idea of your views on gays and lesbians in general and how you came to formulate those views?

It's really quite simple. I believe everyone's a human being and should be treated with the dignity accorded to every human being. If we could simply do that, we'd solve many problems. I've had gay friends throughout my life and have enjoyed their friendship very much. And I came to realize that everyone is human and that sexual orientation really has nothing to do with anything. Knowing gay people definitely prevents homophobia. Friends are friends. I had two gay friends in the world of wrestling that were together 41 years. Unfortunately, one of them passed on. But when one was ill, the other was never allowed to be by his bed in the hospital. That was very inhumane. It's why in my campaign I had the quote "Love is bigger than government."

Isn't the wrestling world you came from somewhat homophobic?

Not at all. In fact, it's very much heterophobic. We used to have what we called "ring rats," female fans.

So the wrestlers didn't like having women chase after them?

They were like groupies, and they wouldn't leave us alone.

Did you reach out to gays and lesbians in your campaign? How active were they?

I don't know. To me it was never a prerequisite. We reached out to anyone and everyone who wanted to take part in the upset of the world. It was just a case of people hearing my position, and whether they took part or not was their decision, not mine. We didn't do outreach to any groups at all. Our campaign was based on no groups at all, only individuals.

What are the biggest obstacles gay Americans face today?

Being treated as equals. If we could achieve that, that in itself would be a victory. I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own home. It's none of my business, and it should be none of government's business. We want to get government out of people's private lives. My rule of governing is that government should be there to help you to do whatever it is you can't do yourself.

As a libertarian, do you believe in legal protections for gay men and lesbians, or do you think laws don't necessarily mandate equality?

There should be laws to provide equality. Hopefully, our constitution should do that. But there are times for whatever reason that it doesn't seem to totally prevail. So laws are needed to make sure people are treated equally. Minnesota bans discrimination based on sexual orientation, and I support that.

What are the positions of the Reform Party vis-a-vis equal rights laws for gays?

I would think it's not even in the party platform. What I love about the Reform Party is that it allows you to be you, much more than the other parties do. They don't make you adapt to what they think you should believe. We have both pro-life and pro-choice members because we don't believe it's a political issue. It's a personal issue. It's whatever one person believes in.

Why should gays be interested in the Reform Party?

We offer equality. The Reform Party doesn't go into personal issues to my knowledge at all. We stick to government policies. Whatever a person's private life, it doesn't matter at all.

What are your views on domestic partnerships?

I have no problem with them. But I think "partnership" is a good name for it. I looked up the definition of marriage in the dictionary, and it says "between a man and a woman," so until they change the dictionary, I think domestic partnership is a good name. Minnesota doesn't provide for domestic partnerships. But if gays and lesbians wanted to make the commitment under law,

I wouldn't oppose it. But I haven't considered doing this yet. I hate to say it, but I've got a lot more pressing things, and it hasn't been brought to my attention until now.

What are your views on hatecrimes laws?

Minnesota has them, although I oppose them. I believe that crime is crime and labeling something a hate crime is politically nice and correct. But I believe strongly in simply prosecuting whatever that crime is. I think we start sliding down a very slippery slope if we start trying to determine the mental state of someone who commits a crime.

What about motivation?

To me, the motivation is irrelevant. If the crime is murder, it's murder. Why someone is motivated to commit murder, it doesn't really enter into what the crime is and what the prosecution should be. Whether they kill you to take your money or because they hate your sexual orientation, the end result is still murder.

Do you support the death penalty?

I used to until I became governor, because I wouldn't want that burden put on my shoulders. I wouldn't want to have to make the choice of whether one lives or dies. Fortunately, we don't have the death penalty in Minnesota. Government shouldn't have the right to take a life. But life in prison should be life, without parole.

Do you have an opinion on gays in the military?

Who am I to tell someone they can or cannot serve their country? We are all members of this great United States of America. I couldn't care less what a person's sexual orientation is, and I'm an ex-Navy SEAL. All I care is that the guy next to me can get the job done. I'd get rid of "don't ask, don't tell." In my day gay men in the military would've been a blessing. When I got to Subic Bay [in the Philippines], where there were 350 bars and 10,000 girls, there would've been less competition.

How would you assess the social environment for gays in your state?

I think, in general, it's fine. Naturally, you're always going to have bigots. You can't legislate what people think and do. But in general we're pretty fair up here.

What is your reaction to figures such as Trent Lott or Reggie White, who said homosexuality is a sin and a disease?

All the people I know that are gay and all scientific indicators seem to indicate very strongly that you are born that way, and I accept that and believe that science will prove me out. But others certainly have their beliefs, and it's not my job to criticize. We just differ in our opinions. But when people like Trent and Reggie take a position that you make a choice, I always ask, "Well, when did you make yours? When did you choose to be hetero?" It really throws them off.

What is your position on names reporting and partner notification for HIV?

Minnesota requires both, and I agree. Our job is to protect public health, and people have the right to know. People with HIV have the right not to tell their partners, I guess. But their partners have the right to know if they had sexual contact with someone with HIV.

There's been talk about governors being more in touch with the people than politicians in Washington. Do you agree?

My main fight with Washington is getting states' rights back. I don't like the idea that Washington seems to be draining the powers from individual states to make their own decisions about lifestyles and things like that. One of the attractive things about our country is that if you live in one particular state that maybe doesn't fit your mode of thinking, you can choose from 49 others. And if the federal government starts taking this power from us, well, then where do you go? Like states that approve medical marijuana but the federal government overrules it. I disagree with that.

What about a federal gay rights bill?

Again, I think it should be left up to the individual states. If you are a gay person in a state that doesn't provide for your rights, well, hopefully, there are other states that will.

As a national figure, have you spoken publicly about issues concerning gays and lesbians?

No. I speak out when I'm asked, that's all. As if I need to get in any more trouble speaking out. I'm always in trouble. But I will say I do believe in equal rights for everybody. If we all practiced that, we wouldn't have to speak out. It may sound very simple, but if we all did that, we'd be in great shape.

What's next for Jesse Ventura on the national stage?

I don't know. I'm already polling 25% for president, and I don't even want to run. It's amazing. It tells me I could win. I think the atmosphere is right out there. When I started running for governor, I was only polling 10%. But I don't think I'll run in 2000. Did you ever notice how the president, when he is elected, is virile and young? Then four years later he's aged 20 years. I don't want that. I want to stay as young and good-looking as I am.

Kirby is a regular contributor to The New York Times.

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